Independant Intructors: why? pros & cons?

[littleleemur]

Why did you decide to become an Independant Instructor & what do you feel are the pros and cons of doing so?

[lars2923]

Why did you decide to become an Independant Instructor & what do you feel are the pros and cons of doing so?

PROS: Flexibility, money.. We put enough into becoming and maintaining an
instructor rating (professional dues, insurance, training, travel, time)

CONS: Resistance from the organization to support independent instructors
by providing the basic necessities to ALL instructors that are available
to retailers. ie. registering new students online.
Cost of stocking equipment necessary to support the
variety of divers. Big, small, tall, short, male, female, etc...
(BCDs and Wetsuits are the biggies)

[Papa Bear]

What a can of worms! The Agencies want to keep their "Shops" happy because the problem becomes just what Lairs says! The suppliers have deals with LDS and even chains and if they started to sell equipment to IDI's the shops would stop buying from the suppliers and all hell breaks loss in the industry! The best thing for all is associations between independents and shops filling each others needs! To discourage too much independence the suppliers will not sell unless you have the store front! It is a symbiotic relationship that the Certifying agencies also got involved in by making their instructors have a relation or connection with the LDS! Over all it is a good model that keep the wolves from eating each other!

So you maybe able to find more students being associated with more shops or Independent?

But CON you maybe limited as to the service you can provide?

[divetrainerpete]

Papa Bear,

My shop provides Independent PADI Instructors access to PADI eLearning, all PADI materials at dealer cost (yes actual - you see the price-book dealer cost). Same for TUSA, Cressi, DAN and other gear manufacturers. NAUI Instructors receive all the same (except eLearning). Instructors for other certifying agencies can get gear as listed below too.

For example: Join us and when a student signs up for PADI eLearning in your area we:

Send the student to you. You proctor the final exam and do remediation as needed
You do the pool and OW training,
We bill the student at the prevailing training rates for your area
You recommend the dive gear to the student and send the order to us. We ship it to you to deliver to the student and show them how to use it.
We do all the credit card processing for you.
We maintain the inventory so you don't have to.
We pay you 50% of the training fees and 50% of the profit on the gear.
We measure the profit by subtracting the dealer cost from your selling price and dividing it in half.
For example a mask has a list price of $75.00, a dealer cost of $32.00 and a purchase volume cost to DiveTrainers.com of $25.00. You would be paid $75-$32=$43.00 / 2 = 21.50 for the mask.
You can buy anything we handle at dealer cost for your own demo or rental gear.The net is Independent Instructors can now get all the advantages of being affiliated with a store but without the hassle. Additionally for each referral of another Independent Instructor you send us, who signs up, we will pay you 10% of their first gear order.


I can be reached as of next Monday at (609) 385-6119. I'm having some minor surgery tomorrow and will be out until then.

All the best,
Pete

[seasnake]

Why?: The greedy, money grabbing mentality and lack of commitment to safety and standards at the shop I worked at was unacceptable. Trying to do a good job in that environment led to constant friction between me and the owner.

Pros: I can finally teach to the standard and more with no one breathing down my neck. I can actually feel good about the courses I run.

Cons: Trying to bear the burden of inventory, rental gear, advertising, etc. . . .

So far I have had no trouble with NAUI dealing with me as an independant instructor.

[Papa Bear]

Papa Bear,

My shop provides Independent PADI Instructors access to PADI eLearning, all PADI materials at dealer cost (yes actual - you see the price-book dealer cost). Same for TUSA, Cressi, DAN and other gear manufacturers. NAUI Instructors receive all the same (except eLearning). Instructors for other certifying agencies can get gear as listed below too.

For example: Join us and when a student signs up for PADI eLearning in your area we:

Send the student to you. You proctor the final exam and do remediation as needed
You do the pool and OW training,
We bill the student at the prevailing training rates for your area
You recommend the dive gear to the student and send the order to us. We ship it to you to deliver to the student and show them how to use it.
We do all the credit card processing for you.
We maintain the inventory so you don't have to.
We pay you 50% of the training fees and 50% of the profit on the gear.
We measure the profit by subtracting the dealer cost from your selling price and dividing it in half.
For example a mask has a list price of $75.00, a dealer cost of $32.00 and a purchase volume cost to DiveTrainers.com of $25.00. You would be paid $75-$32=$43.00 / 2 = 21.50 for the mask.
You can buy anything we handle at dealer cost for your own demo or rental gear.The net is Independent Instructors can now get all the advantages of being affiliated with a store but without the hassle. Additionally for each referral of another Independent Instructor you send us, who signs up, we will pay you 10% of their first gear order.


I can be reached as of next Monday at (609) 385-6119. I'm having some minor surgery tomorrow and will be out until then.

All the best,
Pete

I think thats what I said! I think the systems works and all independents should be shop affiliated or advertise that they aren't with all that it implies! I think the confusion is the word "Independent"?

[Rich B]

I understand if there is not a store you're willing to work for in your area. Start one. In the end so many independent instructors want all the fun & money (lmao) made in this industry without taking on the financial responsibility of being a store. Remember, you can have all the benefits of a store.......pay the money, start one and you can have everything.

[seasnake]

I don't have the inclination or the means to invest in starting a full blown dive shop. My involvment as a dive professional at this point is for the love of the sport and sharing it with others. A relationship with a reputable shop would be ideal, but there are none in my area.
I commend any shop owner (in any industry for that matter) who makes the investment and the commitment to provide quality service. I know people go into business to be profitable, but scuba is one business where a proper balance has to be struck between profit and safety. If you associate with a particular certifying agency, you make a commitment to uphold a certain standard. If you provide service below the standard to increase profits, that is unacceptable in my opinion. In my situation my only choice is to be independant.

[divetrainerpete]

Independent Instructors or anyone else for that matter, need a significant amout of capital to open a shop. In my case I have a low six figure number invested. My return on investment will be measured in many years. To own a shop is not necessarily to be able to dive alot. What we all love to do - dive, and running a shop can be mutually disadvantageous.

In the meanwhile many local shops rip off independent instructors. I was one. I was teaching diving because I love it. But when I found out the shop I was teaching for, gave me a "25% key man discount" but was actually starting from 10% over MSRP, I got pissed and opened the shop.

I figured: "Why should I, as a certified insured instructor have to pay bloated rip off prices for gear to a shop that abused their position?" Fortunately I had alternatives. I own another very successful business and so I had the wherewithall to do something about it. Thats why I have the program for Independent Instructors. And by the way, the program is thriving.

Independents are small business people who should be supported. Shops, including mine, don't have, deserve and should not be granted virtual monopolies on distribution for the area they're in. Our program helps fix this.

[The Publisher]

I can't imagine why a dive store would not give employees equipment at cost plus shipping.

The most important thing would be the added draw/benefit of such coupled with the morale boost this would give compared to profiting off your success team.

Additionally, by having your team members equipped with pro gear that may have higher margins, your sales may be positively impacted by having students desiring to purchase products they see your staff using.

To raise your employee equipment purchases prices 10% above msrp, then discount it 25% off that is a morale crusher and represents an attitude of fostering an adversarial relationship with what is supposed to be your key success team players.

[Papa Bear]

Well said! I see it all the time, "We want what you have" will produce more sales!

[Rich B]

I embrace independent instructors and even new stores but I want to see them help the industry grow. That is not a matter of selling it cheaper or talking down other instructors, stores or agencies. Bring something good to the table, earn a honest living and treat people right.

[thalassamania]

I can't imagine why a dive store would not give employees equipment at cost plus shipping.

The most important thing would be the added draw/benefit of such coupled with the morale boost this would give compared to profiting off your success team.

Additionally, by having your team members equipped with pro gear that may have higher margins, your sales may be positively impacted by having students desiring to purchase products they see your staff using.

To raise your employee equipment purchases prices 10% above msrp, then discount it 25% off that is a morale crusher and represents an attitude of fostering an adversarial relationship with what is supposed to be your key success team players.I can't imagine why a shop would not do everything they can to get employees keyman pricing on the items that they want to sell to the students.

[Papa Bear]

I embrace independent instructors and even new stores but I want to see them help the industry grow. That is not a matter of selling it cheaper or talking down other instructors, stores or agencies. Bring something good to the table, earn a honest living and treat people right.

I agree but, unfortunately with that attitude you are often labeled as "Not caring" or a "SCUBA mill only interested in profit". What most don't understand is the business model, they know diving but don't understand marketing. The above is a prime example of someone who doesn't understand. Our industry needs heroes and more positive exposure:D Clean up dives, charities, and other community activities are also good. Telling the truth about the environment is also important because how many think the reefs are about to disappear or die "So why bother"? We are systematically killing hope and our industry is at the front line. I like videos and photos that show the beauty and pristine areas that encourage people to "See for themselves". It is a much harder sell when "Jaws" type movies and news stories scare so many out of the water. We see people during thunderstorms playing golf, yet one bad shark story and "I am not going into that water".

Independent contractors are the standard of the industry, but what isn't is how they are treated by LDS! I have been a champion of contractual agreements between the parties so that all know what is expected of both parties and in addition I think it makes the "Real" Independent contractor what they say they are;)

A wise man once told me that "You don't bite the hand that feeds you"! :rolleyes:

[The Publisher]

I confess to having had to look up "keyman pricing" but it appears more streamlined than my longer winded explanation, so thanks for the linguistics lesson Thal :)

[BillGraham]

This seems a good place to ask "Do you know how to make a million dollars in the dive industry?" :rolleyes:

[lottie]

This seems a good place to ask "Do you know how to make a million dollars in the dive industry?" :rolleyes:

Become a pirate..then you can dive down into the murky depths and bury your treasure somewhere. ROFL

Ow Aarrr me 'earties :D

[Papa Bear]

This seems a good place to ask "Do you know how to make a million dollars in the dive industry?" :rolleyes:

Mel fisher did! From Dive shop owner to Multi-Millionaire in only a life time! Price paid two family members and a best friend!

[Sarah]

Backhanded, circular, indirect, obtuse, circuitous, oblique, tangential (or any other words I can come up with, lol) flames directed at members will be continue to be deleted.

If you have a different idea, state such, never flame the messenger on SMN.

Thanks! :)

[Tom R]

Start with 2 million

[Papa Bear]

I like that one! Great answer and I am ROLF!:D :p :rolleyes:

[LANCE]

Every one is bringing up valid points, being an independent instructor is difficult in more ways than just discounts on gear and the like. With out a recognized organizational name behind the independent instructor. It can be difficult to get insurance, supply certification cards to students and to have those cards recognized by dive companies. There are hundreds of dive instructors who don't have instructor certifications from "recognized" organizations. It does not make them any less safe or responsible. Some of them are fantastic instructors with a wealth of dive knowledge and a complete understanding of what it takes educate and evaluate new divers. Then there are the independent instructors who are certified by recognized dive agencies, who,because they are independents, don't receive the same support as "employed" instructors. It can be very frustrating to operate a business as an independent. Diving is a business for most instructors and one of the few ways to insure success is to write a business plan, execute that plan and do the foot work and research to insure success.